I suppose it could go either way. We know Kara had been to the cinder planet (or at least, they found her body there), so it’d make sense for it to be the moon of that version of Earth. My immediate emotional reaction to this possibility is a negative one, as it could make the whole “finding earth” storyline a lie and a waste, rather than a misunderstanding between the colonials and whoever the guiding force is – which would I find more satisfying. After that flash of disdain, however, I realized it would be poetic that just as Kara was “supposed” to see the trinary system with the jovian and the basestar, all of them had to see the cinder planet/Earth. For the Final Five/13th colony, it was the end point for all the signs they left – the Tomb of Athena, the Temple of Hopes, and the rest.

But for the head people/angels, it is just another signpost. What’s the phrase – you can only find what you’re looking for once you stop looking? This works well with a Campbellian reading – “The road of trials,” “the belly of the whale,” letting go, and all that. So Kara’s picture can be a photo of the moon of the 13th colony, while not posing a threat to an alternate universe hypothesis.

Either that, or it’s really a photo of OUR moon and we will get a Calvin’s-dad-esque explanation of how it’s actually a color photo of a black and white world, and it is the universe that is upside down, not the photo.

In my other post I do mention the Tomb of Athena constellations and the twist out of the Ionian Nebula at the end of “Crossroads.” I had not considered the upside moon features — good catch! I wonder, though, if that’s actually a weak point in our alternate universe theories — is that supposed to be the moon of the 13th Colony or the moon of our Earth?

I don’t think we’re going to get a neat and tidy closure on all of the lingering questions. Some things will be answered in “The Plan” movie, but I still think the ending will be open-ended.

“[...] it may turn out that we don’t really know the exact fate of those who pass through. It may be up to interpretation if those who pass through are literally dead or have gone to an alternate universe. “Earth” could be a figurative afterlife “paradise” or a literal planet.”

I really, really like this idea.

On Dreilide Thrace…

The Final Five re-invented the organic memory transfer system two thousands years ago. And if knowing the Song is “the other half,” as it were, of being able to utilize the system, then one has to ask, “If Dreilide Thrace knew the Song, and the Final Five’s equipment has been around all this time, then perhaps Dreilide Thrace has been able to resurrect for at least as long?”

This would mean he is immensely old — at least as old as the Final Five. Hell, perhaps he’s also a member of the Thirteenth Tribe.

Sincerely,
John-Mark

Well, that’s not entirely true…

Great catch! I’d forgotten all about those events.

Basically, what I think I’m suggesting is, the Song (”All Along the Watchtower”) is the key to the “organic memory transfer” used by the people of Kobol…Merely knowing the Song allows you to “cross over” into this “space between life and death” and be resurrected. But, again, only those who are configured (human/Cylon hybrids) can pick up the signal and know the song. So Starbuck, in order to accomplish her Destiny (whatever that is), had to be taught the Song.

I really like this idea. You might be onto something there. I especially like that from a religious POV this can be interpreted a number of ways. It could be seen as the “Good News” or as the knowledge required to rise to the next level of enlightenment. It also means that plain ol’ regular humans can learn the Song.

. . .it would raise the question of where Dreilide Thrace learned the Song. If he was human, he would have had to be taught the Song by someone else. . .

It certainly does raise that question. Starbuck has always seemed to me to be a type of “child of the gods,” which would explain her special gifts such as being the best pilot in the fleet etc.

Maybe this is a fundamental difference between the two modes we’ve been discussing. If I understand correctly, Buddhism requires the letting go of all attachment, that suffering never has a restorative effect and even seemingly positive things hold us to the tangible life and keep us from nirvana. In Christianity, suffering can be a kind of purification and can have a purpose (I’m specifically thinking of Purgatory as well as Christ’s Passion)

That’s a decent summary.

I’m with you, though, I want to see Helo regain his previous state of grace.

Heck yes.

Probably all of the characters are having to let go of their yearnings if I stop and think about it. The Admiral has to let go of the Galactica.

Quite a few people need to let go of Galactica, the Admiral included. He needs to let Roslin go as well, and she perhaps needs to let him go.

Turns out, the Fields of Elysium were mentioned in the episode “Faith.”

Cool; evidently, I had forgotten about that.

Well, that’s not entirely true. There was that incident with the Sons of Ares attacking Baltar’s cult, followed by Roslin forbidding them from assembling (“Escape Velocity”).

Likewise, the people of Sagittaron have unorthodox polytheistic beliefs and were looked down upon for their particular interpretations, specifically with respect to medicine (“The Woman King.”) We see the same thing in the real world, with smaller religious groups looked down upon simply because they do not subscribe to the doctrines of a larger, more politically or financially influential Church.

It’s always been a bit more complicated than that — but that’s the beauty of BSG.

As for the other comments, great conversation, guys. I’m just trying to soak it in myself.

In the interim, I’ve somewhat refined what I was talking about in my initial comment up top:

Basically, what I think I’m suggesting is, the Song (“All Along the Watchtower”) is the key to the “organic memory transfer” used by the people of Kobol. The Song is a signal that permeates a sort of “under-layer” of the universe (this “under-layer” would probably be the same as “the space between life and death”). Only half-human/half-Cylons are biologically configured to receive this signal. (This would explain why Hera, who is half human and half Cylon, intuitively knows the Song. She’s picking up the signal, like a perfectly tuned radio receiver.)

Merely knowing the Song allows you to “cross over” into this “space between life and death” and be resurrected. But, again, only those who are configured (human/Cylon hybrids) can pick up the signal and know the song. So Starbuck, in order to accomplish her Destiny (whatever that is), had to be taught the Song. Being only human, she would not be able to tap into this signal that’s perpetually broadcasting in the space between life and death, like Hera can do. Once she knew the Song, she could be resurrected through the organic memory transfer system the people on Kobol first invented — a system which implemented this signal broadcast.

It would also explain why the Song was so important to the Final Five when they re-invented the organic memory transfer system prior to the holocaust on Earth. In a sense, they had to re-discover the importance of the Song in being able to resurrect (perhaps this was the “intuitive leap” Anders talked about that Ellen made in making the system work again.) Maybe the Thirteenth Tribe forgot the significance of the Song once they learned how to procreate. For a time, resurrection would have been impossible (the signal would possibly be useless without the necessary hardware). When the Final Five reconstructed the hardware, the signal could be utilized again (e.g. Starbuck’s return).

If there is any merit to my admittedly shaky speculations, it would raise the question of where Dreilide Thrace learned the Song. If he was human, he would have had to be taught the Song by someone else (perhaps he was visited by one of these angels/messegers Ron Moore keeps talking about). Or perhaps he was half-human/half-Cylon, so he could pick up the Song intuitively, like Hera. Which would mean that Starbuck is also part Cylon — but not “mixed” enough to tap into the Song on her own, so she had to learn it.

Of course, none of this explains how Starbuck ended up not only with a resurrected body, but with a new Viper and even a new flight suit.

Sincerely,
John-Mark

It’s not a foreign concept to Christian theology either. . .The difference with Helo’s suffering is that it is self-destructive, rather than restorative (if that’s an adequate term to use) or affirmative.

Maybe this is a fundamental difference between the two modes we’ve been discussing. If I understand correctly, Buddhism requires the letting go of all attachment, that suffering never has a restorative effect and even seemingly positive things hold us to the tangible life and keep us from nirvana. In Christianity, suffering can be a kind of purification and can have a purpose (I’m specifically thinking of Purgatory as well as Christ’s Passion). I’m with you, though, I want to see Helo regain his previous state of grace.

I think that is what is happening. And not just in Starbuck’s case, but (as you note) in Helo’s as well.

Probably all of the characters are having to let go of their yearnings if I stop and think about it. The Admiral has to let go of the Galactica.

I remember Hades being brought up; I was wondering whether any paradise-like realm (e.g. Elysium) had likewise been mentioned. Off the top of my head, I’ve no recollection, even from “Faith.”

Well, now I’m just going to have to research it. My curiosity gets the better of me.